Strawmen & dead horse flogging

Iggy left some comments here on an older post around Lordship Salvation. The comment is a rehash of some of the objections already answered in that post: Conversation with Lou

I published Iggy’s comments, but do so somewhat hesitantly since there is a lot of follow-up in subsequent posts.

Iggy raises the normal strawman arguments of Lordship Salvation somehow adding works to faith, something thoroughly rebutted here and elsewhere. No-one in LS anywhere, at any time, states that works are necessary for salvation. No-one, anywhere in LS ever states that man’s good works are somehow of his own doing.

In fact, this shows to me that Iggy has a pretty poor understanding of what LS actually states. There is nothing that Iggy wrote about faith, and the fact that all our works are due to the work of Christ in us that anyone in LS will disagree with. However, Iggy does want us to believe that all of the work done by Christ in us, and our subsequent faith, has no external manifestation.

This is clearly not what the Bible teaches, and I am still waiting for anyone to show me any prooftexts or exegesis that someone who is Spirit-filled can show no evidence of that in their life. We read, for example:
Mat 3:8 Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.
Mat 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Mat 7:17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

There is clear Scriptural evidence that the fruit we bear, the light that shines is evidence that the spirit has wrought changes in us.

Iggy continues with this statement:
“Works are an outward sign that God lives in us…but they are not a sign that proves to anyone that one is saved…” Therefore, using this logic, God living in us and the works that result from that does not mean a thing to anyone else, contra to Matt 5:16 quoted above. Iggy says that on the one hand we must give all the glory to God, but on the other hand it does not really mean that we must give the glory to God, since what we do does not show that we are Spirit-filled.

That is contrary even to Iggy’s own argument using the faith of Abraham. Abraham not only believed, he obeyed. He did as he was told through faith, and by that we know he was believing.
Jam 2:20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
Jam 2:22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;

The last point is one of the more recent objections, namely the requirement of commitment, and Iggy states that man’s commitment is not required, as it is worthless. Again, I have been waiting for months for even as much as a prooftext to show that this is Biblical reasoning. To start with, the logic does not even hold true, since believing is already a commitment. However, Jesus Himself required some sort of commitment:
Mat 10:38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Mat 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
Luk 9:23 And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.”
Luk 14:27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.

Another version of this argument states that there need not be an”upfront” commitment to Jesus. I don’t know how that can hold true, unless one totally divorces repentance from salvation. Repentance means to turn away from the old sinful self, and turn towards Christ in faith. Can one be saved without doing that? Nope. Faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin. And can one do that because of ones own will and under ones own power? Nope. It can only happen after regeneration, since we are all dead in our sins.

Is repentance, the turning away from sin and towards Christ not a commitment? And is it not a commitment made before justification? How can one then be saved, but have not made the commitment of repentance?

I’m sorry, Iggy, but your whole response is constructed around the strawmen that opponents of Lordship Salvation repeatedly and erroneously state. It is long on assertion, but short on proof. And it is devoid of Scriptural proof, and shows a lack of understanding of both Scriptural teaching and the accurate reflection thereof in Lordship. Read the whole series on the offices of Christ, and the series on Every knee shall bow.

I don’t expect the opponents of the Lordship of Christ to change their minds, because that will require them to actually take ownership of their faith, and bear some responsibility for their actions.

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One response to “Strawmen & dead horse flogging

  1. The proponents of “cheap grace” must somehow deal with 1 John 2:3-4 and Ezekiel 36:27. I have yet to see one of them address these passages. All I ever here is “explain John 3:16 to me by itself”.

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